As I mentioned in the last post, I’d like to see Arsenal go out with a nothing-to-lose mindset. But there is a difference between a carefree approach and a careless approach.
Arsene talked about playing an attacking game with the hope of dominating possession. Frankly, I can’t see Arsenal, or any other team for that matter, dominating possession against this Barcelona side at least as long as Messi is fit and firing. Pressing in the Barcelona half might work for a while but can we risk giving Messi the length and breadth of our half to run into? I think it will be suicidal for Arsenal to go with our usual attacking approach.
If Arsenal go out to press the opponents high up the pitch we could easily concede early and that’s the last thing one wants against opponents of this quality. I’d rather Arsenal stay deep and play a steady patient game. Nevertheless, the Gunners will have to find a way of pushing Barcelona back. If the visitors camp in the Arsenal half it will only be a matter of time before they score. Since high pressing is risky Arsenal will have to find other ways of forcing Barcelona to adopt a slightly defensive approach.
The Catalan side play a very compact game. Very rarely do we see large gaps between their players. This enables quick short passes and it also gives them the bodies needed for their suffocating pressing off the ball. The flip side is that they always leave large vacant spaces on the pitch. Finding these spaces is not easy but with the passing ability that players like Wilshere and Cesc have and the speed of Walcott, Arsenal should try to exploit these gaps.
I’ve put my preferred starting eleven in the following graphic.
I’m sure many would like to see Nasri start this game and will want Arsene to pick what has come to be known as the first string. I don’t want to see Nasri risked in this game because we won’t get the chance to use his attacking skills that often. And if he has to do a lot of defensive work then it would be much better to pick a midfielder who is more used to that role. Let’s not forget the next game will be just as important as this one and a fully fresh Nasri will make a much more significant impact in that one.
I also feel it is important for Arsenal to be a little unpredictable. Barcelona can afford to be predictable because they are that good and have the confidence of winning a number of big games and trophies. The Gunners will have to surprise the visitors if they have to rattle them and force them to change their approach on the go. That’s one of the main reasons I’ve picked a slightly different starting line-up than what most people would go for. The back five is pretty predictable but the three midfielders in front of them will be extremely important because I expect most of the play to be between the two yellow lines in that image.
I don’t want to sacrifice Cesc in one of those roles. That’s the reason I have picked Denilson (would love to have Diaby in that position but he is injured!) in the middle with Song and Wilshere on the inside channels.
In my opinion this will give the team better protection on the inside channels, something Barcelona love to exploit. It will also free Theo up from his defensive role on the wings.
When the pressure is really high Cesc can drop into the middle to make it a four man midfield. Otherwise he can float just ahead of the three midfielders so that they have an outlet when they win the ball back.
Cesc in such a role will also be able to provide better service to Theo and RvP. I’d like to see Walcott start off in a central position and look for runs down the right or left channels depending on the area we win the ball back. Some early runs resulting in a card or two for the defenders might make this game really interesting as that will force Barcelona to be more cautious in their attitude.
At the back I’d like to see the defenders remain compact. We should let Barcelona have the wide areas. I can’t see much threat from crosses coming from the touchline if the defenders do their job. The full-backs should tuck in and make sure the Barcelona wingers are not able to get in behind untracked. If Eboue doesn’t lose his concentration he should be able to do a good job on Villa.
If, or should I say when, the Barcelona full backs make forward runs I’d like to see Song or Wilshere go out to close them as there won’t be a designated wide player on either side in the system that I’ve proposed.
Defending against Messi will always be tricky. Last season, at least in the first game where Arsenal negated his threat fairly well, it seemed that Wenger had given clear instructions to his defenders and midfielders not to let Messi collect the ball and turn from deep position. The Argentinean’s biggest threat lies in the way he runs with the ball, and if he gets a chance to turn and attack the defence he can be near impossible to stop.
This season it seems Messi is playing centrally in a False Nine role. So we should expect him to drop deep often and link up with the midfielders while opening space for the wide players to make diagonal runs. I’d not like to see our central defenders chase Messi too high up the pitch. That’s where an extra midfielder like Denilson can come in handy. Even Fabregas will have to do his bit if Leo drops back towards the centre circle.
Walcott and RvP will have to ensure that the likes of Pique and Busquets don’t get too much time on the ball.
An area where Arsenal will have to be alert is quick free-kicks and corners. The Gunners have a tendency of momentarily switching off on such occasions and Barcelona have the talent to punish us for that.
This game will also present the first real test for young Szczesny. Given his inexperience, I’m not convinced he will be able to repeat the heroics of Almunia from the first twenty minutes of last season’s encounter. So I’m hoping the players in front of him will do much better. I won’t be surprised if the youngster does concede through his legs or gets caught out of position on some occasions. It will be a good learning experience for him.
Koscielny is another who will face a challenge he hasn’t yet encountered in his Arsenal career (perhaps in all his football life). He’s a defender who likes to get tight on his man and loves to tackle. It won’t be easy against such highly skilled and quick-footed opponents. If Arsenal play a high line, I’m worried the Frenchman will pick up a card. Hopefully the colour will not match his jersey.
As with all big games the key in this one will be the first goal. If Arsenal score the first one early Barcelona will have to think twice about the kind of risks they want to take in an away game. On the other hand, if the visitors score one early it will be much easier for them to just pass it around and wait for a mistake. This is another reason why I’d like to see a safe start from Arsenal.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the game. I don’t honestly expect any such change from Arsene who is likely to pick his strongest team that has been performing well recently. Le Boss will send his team out to attack and I expect them to suffer due to one or more individual mistakes and/or moments of brilliance from the opponents.
I won’t mind a poor result as long as it doesn’t affect the morale of the team and we get away without any injuries. Last season the relapse of the injury to Gallas and the loss of Cesc hurt us a lot more in the long run than the actual result.
Here’s to an open and entertaining game with plenty of goals and inspirational football.
An unrealistic starting XI. When have you ever seen Arsenal play like that? It is more risky to play with a new formation and tactic, then play your own game, even though its against Barcelona. I would like to see Arsenal with the same tactic as against Chelsea and City. I cant see why Arsenal shouldnt be able to dominate the game at home. Drop the football manager-mindset. Wont happen.
When was the last time any team dominated the ball against Barcelona, home or away? I’d really love to know that little detail. Care to enlighten us?
Arsenal, Chelsea, United, City, etc are at a similar level. Messi takes Barcelona a notch or two above them all. IMHO it’s astonishingly naive to think that the tactics that can work against Chelsea or City will work against Barcelona.
I have never used football manager so can’t comment on that mindset but I’m not from the ‘refuse to think just hope for the best’ school of thought.
It won’t happen I know and have said so in the post. But it’s still a discussion about football. The point is to put my thoughts forward and to read to other peoples’ observations. If I just had to write generic stuff like you wrote why would I even bother with a blog!?
Desi,
May not be directly related to this post, but this technical report for last champion’s league is a nice read:
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/uefaorg/Publications/01/54/80/64/1548064_DOWNLOAD.pdf
You have made some good judgement while selecting the team formation. Us facing Barcelona is like Tottenham, Sunderland or Newcastle facing Arsenal. They never spend time thinking how they can have more possession than us. Some other thoughts:
- I am not completely sure, if Theo can be a lethal threat from left, primarily because he is not so used to this. He is not the best finisher with the left. As dani alves, bombs forward, his place would be controlled by Pique (with Abidal as the left centre back). Had Puyol been there, it would have to be him. On the other hand Busquets will most likely drop to support Abidal in the center. We would need someone to make diagonal runs against Pique. In the present context, Arshavin looks to be the best bet.
also I feel set pieces would be one very important areas where we can use the height of Djourou, Koscielny or RVP against the relatively shorter barca.
You are spot on abot Kosciely. His confidence in the one on ones lead him to step out and stick to the attackers. This might work in some cases, but not when you have Leo Messi against you.
Actually Chelsea under Gus Hiddink totally dominated Barca over two legs. Ipersonally believe that Gus got his tactics right. They were very compact and utterly neutralized Messi.They also played a very physical game. Mourinho also used the same tactics against them last season and were especially successful in the first leg although possession wise they were dominated in the second. Unfortunately, Arsenal has no players nor experience to replicate those tactics.
Arsenal should play as a collective and defend as a collective which was the bedrock of the great Champions League run in 2006. Total Focus and total application with quick breaks and efficiency in front of goal is the key.
I lie your thoughts and I agree with you that Wenger is likely to use his first choice. It is a difficult decision and a difficult game to prepare for. Personally, I would play Arshavin in this one just behind Van Persie in a 4-4-1-1 formation. I believe that is Arshavin’s best position where he can really hurt the opponents. I would introduce Theo around the 60 min mark. I think Barcelona’s tactics in the second leg last season were effective in nuetralizing Theo and they will repeat it this time round. Unfortunately Theo is limited in his dribbling and will find it difficult again as he did in the second leg. That explains my Arshavin preference.
It would be nice to have Diaby in that role as it would congest the middle, but having Denilson there is basically forfeiting.
@sebas
u f****** up c***, do u even watch football? Denilson lacks physicality not technicality. Game against farca will be a technical and tactical battle. Nobody is better than denilson in intercepting balls in current arsenal team.
U are a c***.
Denilson will probably be standing and watching Messi/Xavi/Iniesta once they turn and make a move past. Rather have Bendtner upfront to give our players an avenue when clearing the ball (Walcott is the other avenue)
I feel hopeful about Denilson as he did a good enough job after coming on in the first leg last season. As long as he doesn’t have to chase the ball over long distances or have a physical battle he can contribute with his technique and reading of the game. Not saying he would be perfect but with Diaby not available I didn’t see much choice.
Your point about having another outlet up front is interesting. It will certainly give us more attacking options. It’d then be similar to the current formation with Bendtner coming in for Nasri alongside Walcott and RvP in front of a midfield of Cesc, Song, and Jack. My opinion is that such a formation will leave larger gaps at the back that can be trouble us.
Agreed about Denilson. He will not start this game, and I only see him being played in the case of an injury. As for the outlets, Arshavin, I believe, is a sure starter, to be replaced by Nasri in the second half, earlier than later. Arshavin is a very valuable asset in creating chances, and with the passing of him, Cesc, Jack, and Theo, I’m certain RvP will have some clear chances.
it will come as no surprise to hear me say this.
but nasri for me, should be in the starting eleven. if you think we can’t use his attacking capabilities then i would put forth we use his defensive capabilities
he won’t necessarily work harder than arshavin, but defensively he works much more efficiently, and with real intensity
i think we will try to out-barca, the team wants to prove that’s how they operate
i don’t want denilson in the starting 11, but i don’t say he can’t do a job. he, however won’t be, because arsene knows that decision will look wild given the way jack and song have been performing.
whether we will is another question. but here’s to great faith in our chance
let’s go arsenal, let’s go
it will come as no surprise to hear me say this.
but nasri for me, should be in the starting eleven. if you think we can’t use his attacking capabilities then i would put forth we use his defensive capabilities
he won’t necessarily work harder than arshavin, but defensively he works much more efficiently, and with real intensity
i don’t want denilson in the starting 11, but i don’t say he can’t do a job. he, however won’t be, because arsene knows that decision will look wild given the way jack and song have been performing.
i think we will try to out-barca, the team wants to prove that’s how they operate
whether we will is another question. but here’s to great faith in our chance
let’s go arsenal, let’s go
Just the thought that Wilshere and Arshavin will be helping out Clichy with Messi is horrible. I have watched Wilshere closely and his tracking back is not very good. He has at least 2-3 bad moments a match. Abou should start instead of him but he is injured again. We will get hammered, mes amis.
that’s grim, you don’t mention anything jack gives in attack. not to mention he’ll be working harder than he ever has
and i’m not a very big jack wilshere fan, but i at least give him more credit than that
very grim, arshavin may not start, and i would agree with you he should not. but he can create magic. definitely.
We are quicker than Barcelona and physically more resilient. So I think the key will be in our pace and physicality.
Talking about technical ability is moot,splitting hairs, for such teams. These players are the top in terms of technical ability.
I am looking forward to a football match today. I left after 35min of watching the rugby between Tinytots and AC Milan yesterday.
I should ask for a refund. Time not money.
If Nasri is available, and according to Wenger, “Everybody’s absolutely adamant that he’s completely medically available,” he should start and we should go with what most people would agree is our strongest available lineup–Szczesny, Eboue, Dourou, Koscielny, Clichy, Song, Wilshere, Cesc, Theo, RvP and Nasri.
Defensively, the key will be being disciplined in our pressing. Where we’ve often gotten burned is that Cesc has a tendency to press high, alongside and even beyond RvP, while our wide forwards also remain high. While this is great for pressuring defenders who aren’t good on the ball into bad passes or just hoofing it long, it means that if a pass does does bypass that line, Wilshere and Song have the whole width of the field to cover and it’s just too much space. Barca’s defenders are too good on the ball for that tactic. They’re good enough and patient enough to pass it amongst themselves and wait for a lane to open to one of the midfielders. Theo, Nasri, and especially Cesc have to be careful not to get sucked too high up the pitch and allow a big gap to be exploited behind them.
Tactically, the one switch I might make is switching Song and Wilshere. Dani Alves plays very high and is instrumental to Barca’s effectiveness in the final third. He’s second on the team in assists and Pedro the wide R forward is second in goals scored and third in assists (gee guess who leads Barca in both?). Obviously, they combine very well on Barca’s right flank. Song is a better defender than Wilshere and naturally plays deeper so having him on that side to help out Clichy and Nasri tightens up that side. Plus, Messi likes to drift to that side and cut in on his stronger foot.
In possession, Nasri’s versatility will be key. He has the ability to drop into the midfield and help but has also learned to play as a forward and make intelligent runs behind the defense, which against Barca’s high line will be crucial. Nasri needs to give Alves something to think about. RvP’s ability to drop deep and exchange short quick passes with Cesc and Nasri to negate Barca’s pressing will be crucial. Theo needs to be ready take advantage of the space that’s Robin’s movement will create. He gave Maxwell a torrid time in the second half of the first leg last year.
Focus and discipline will be the key. If we play our game, play to our strengths and maintain focus, we can definitely give Barca a run for their money.
The reason I dislike the substitution of Denilson for Nasri/Arshavin is that you’re removing a goalscorer/creator for a midfield shuttler. Denilson might help to maintain possession but at the expense of cutting edge. Besides, even though we play a nominal 4-3-3, if you look at average position charts, both Nasri and Arshavin play deeper and more inside from the left than Walcott on the right, who’s often our most advanced player since Rvp drifts deep so often. So Nasri or Arshavin can provide the extra body in midfield and still provide a more potent goalscoring threat. You’re lineup, Desi, in my opinion may be superior from a purely defensive point of view but I feel that the offensive cost is too great. We may not be able to win the possession stats against Barca but even if it’s 55-45 that’s better than Barca’s usual 70% possession. From Barca’s standpoint, that’s a loss. Anyway, I’m tired of thinking about the tactics. Let’s get on with the game already!
Completely agree with your observations regarding not pressing too high up. For that to work we would need a really high line to squeeze the play. It would be an extremely risky strategy against such a team.
Interesting point about switching Song and Wilshere. We switched Song and Denilson against Leeds. But given the weakness of Wilshere’s right foot I’m not sure he can play on the right side of midfield. He will end up letting everything run across him so that it comes to his left and it will be easy for the opponents to read it.
If Nasri can find the right balance between attack and defence it will be excellent. I’m worried he might end up playing deep in our half but hopefully that’ll turn out to be a misplaced fear.
I agree that what I have suggested seems a bit too defensive. Ideally I’d not want it that way but I’ve seen too many mistakes by our players so I wanted to think of a safer approach. If they can maintain the focus and discipline, as you mentioned, it can work well even with one extra attacking player.
As zonalmarking once pointed out, dani alves is another player to watch besides the obvious messi and xaviniesta. This aggressive fullback likes to camp on the opponent half and run havoc with his crosses or cut-ins. Whatever the formation Arsene fields, I’d like to see how he will try to negate this threat.
Yes it will be worth watching. It can be dealt with by using an extra defensive minded midfielder or by using an attacking player who will force Alves back.
I prefer the defensive option but Arsene will probably go with an attacking one.
With all due respect, Desi, you are out of your mind. There is no way we come out in that formation or starting 11. You can’t reinvent the wheel for your opponent. We are who we are and it’s a matter of can we show up with our best game. That formation gives the “too much respect” that everybody is talking about not doing again. We will come out in our standard 4-2-3-1 with the only question being Arshavin or Nasri.
Tech
Eboue – Djourou – Koscielny – Clichy
Wilshere – Song
Walcott – Cesc – Nasri
RVP
Our best game is good enough. We have more than enough speed to hurt them and badly. Their back 5 is pretty slow overall. As long as we get in their faces, take the ball back and not let them lull us to sleep with 100 pass buildups we are a match for them.
If we come out looking like we did at United then we are in trouble.
As I said it’s a decision between carefree and careless. The team Wenger selects and the outcome will tell us what works or what doesn’t.
i fully agree. showing too much respect is a big no no. out of the very few teams that had the balls, that took the game to barca have had success, what you’re suggesting is not what arsenal is about. i hope arsenal plays their game, and their best game.
Oh and BTW we don’t need to dominate the ball. We only need to break out Theo on a few runs with quick strike moves like the second goal against wolves. Frankly I’m predicting Barca finish the game with 10 men after a Theo drag down from behind
I wont say desi is out of his mind, he is just expressing his idea. The only problem is, we simply dun play in that manner, and any last min changes will create more chaos for us then to Barca.
as for:
Eboue – Djourou – Koscielny – Clichy
Wilshere – Song
Walcott – Cesc – Nasri
RVP
i would have agree if not due to the fact that nasri has onli just back from injury and i dun wish to have another potential long term injury to a key player. so i will replace Nasri with Ashwin.
A more pratical approach to the game is we compact the distance between the lines (ie: back 5 and 2 DM, AMF and 2DM) and leave Rvp as lone. this way, we get more bodies to choke off the passng option, and we can rely on direct approach on the counter. (Speed)
Wacott and Ashwin have to do plenty of switch of position between them as i expect Barca will be ready for Walcott’s Speed.
Do you want to win the game or go for a draw??? And who is Ashwin… ? a new Indian Arsenal player?
If you want to win, you have to score… all this super defensive talk is fine but you need a balance with some offensive potential too.
lol @new indian Arsenal player. I guess Arshavin and ashwin are not that far apart
LOL.. Typo error.. working and commenting doesn’t goes hand-in-hand.
I wish we can win it by 3-0 but i have to be practical. We cant dominate the possession or control the game, so the next best option is to exploit the gaps when they are pressing and pushing forward.
i can onli trust and hope our trio can create some magic with less support from the midfield.
Eboue’s defending this season has been amateurish at best.What a huge disadvantage that Sagna is missing in one of the biggest matches! How more unlucky can we get ? At least the positive thing is that when we are eliminated we will have more time to recover and less injuries.Man Utd will hopefully play as many games as possible( I mean semi finals) in the Champions League so they will be losing points 3 days later in the league.Their squad is aging and we saw that they could not keep it up by the end of last season. This season they are even worse. We can be champions. United play Marseille who are really woeful so let’s hope they don’t get Real Madrid or Barca in the next round.Our title chances will depend on that draw.
Like the lineup concept. Really worried( along with Tee Song) about Dani Alves coming down their right side. Don’t think Sami should start, but would consider bringing him on later in some circumstances. Glad to see you give credit to Almunia’s performance in first half last year. He was also very good in the last really meaningful game we played v. Barca, coming on for Jens in the 2006 CL final.
Messi can’t really be man-marked(per his nickname) but we should be able to handle the rest of their midfield and threaten them. David Villa is strong up front but I think Kosc and Djourou will handle this baptism of fire.
I foresee a tight game, how about that old line “one nil to the Arsenal”?
If we can keep a clean sheet in this one it will be worth a trophy in itself, at least psychologically!
Desi i understand that this is your opinion of the best starting XI but i can see from your final comment that you don’t see this happenning and i agree. Arsene has the philosophy that his team can outpass any team if they perform up to the strict standards that are expected and i must say that i would follow his course rather than yours, with all due respect. It will take a faultless performance from every Arsenal player but Arsenal cannot achieve what Chelsea did 2 years ago or Inter last year. We cannot absorb pressure from Barcelona for 80 minutes and snatch a goal on the counter because that is not playing to our strengths as it was to them (the ol’ rope-a-dope made famous by Ali). Walcott might grab us one or two with his pace but not before we’ve conceded 3. Let us just hope that plenty of chances are created in an open game and Arsenal are the team to take their chances. That’ll lead to rattled nerves for us fans but if we sit back we will be dominated and demoralised.
I agree that we cannot do what Chelsea did or what Inter did. And I’d love to see us dominating the ball. But looking back at the games from last year and the general performance of almost all other teams against Barca, I don’t think Arsenal can take the possession game to Barcelona. So it’s a matter of being prepared for defending or going out to attack only to realize that we’re having to defend. Which one would you prefer?
Agree with charlie. We go toe to toe and tip our cap if they beat us. You never know, maybe tomorrow is the day Szczesny moves to legendary status with an out of this world performance
Desi, have to disagree on this one. While the intention is noble, I can’t see if ever we use formation we will get the result. This formation typically used by our opponents & yet we still tore them apart bar Man C with their luck. We need speed for the counter attack, with Walcott only as our speed demon it will be way too predictable. I agree with the thinking that we will need extra protection defensively, this is why I think the key will be with Walcott & Arshavin to chip in a much more defensive role than usual. Having said that stamina & passion will be key- I don’t have question on Walcott on both front, but Arshavin will be interesting. I hope the real Arshavin will show up. Chamakh will be key as well as a replacement for Arshavin given the fitness, should help the link play, possession & defensive role for the last 20 mins.
Well, it’s always easier said than done. The most important thing is I have the full believe that the boys can beat Barcelona in 2 legs! Not something that I can say last year.
Enjoy the game, I hope it will be as cracking as the expectation.
I guess it’s a matter of do you trust Arshavin and Walcott to be able to perform both roles against such opponents. I’m not sure I do.
Speed can never be ‘too predictable’. So Walcott can never be predictable, unless his opponent is as quick as him.
Which is why Messi rightly pointed him out as the most dangerous. But then Nasri is also quick, so we hear, and so is Arshavin. And there’s RvP in the middle, not Bendtner – bless him.
I think that our pace will win us the game, pace to defend, pace to attack.
Too defensive and it goes completely against what Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal are about. Playing attacking football and playing your game regardless of who you are facing.
I’m pretty sure Wenger knows that we may not be able to keep more possession than them, but why not try? We have the quality, we are at home, so why not give it a go? If we need to change things we always can.
Your formation is too defensive, and you’re basically inviting Barca onto us. Not a good idea. We can play a little bit deeper if you like but no need to take away an attacker.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t attack this Barca team when we showed last time that even without our best players we could trouble them and score. That even at 2-0 up they were constantly vulnerable at the back.
So bad idea going so defensive. And besides, we are not used to playing this way and the players will be clueless.
Best idea is to play the way we do and even if we allow a goal or two we can score a goal or two. You are giving Barca too much respect.
And you deride Mourinho yet you’ve taken the same exact approach as him for this match.
And I forgot to address the formation. There is no width. Barca’s fullbacks will be camped in our half. In fact their whole team will. Pique and Busquets and Abidal will deal with RvP and Walcott.
There aren’t enough attacking outlets to help us escape the pressure and bring the ball out. We’ll be stuck defending for most of the 90 minutes.
I know we are not exactly at Barca’s level but we are still a world class team, probably the only one that can seriously challenge them.
The way you have set us up it would be a huge waste of talent, wouldn’t it? Imagine a team full of RvP, Nasri, Cesc, Walcott defending for 90 minutes.
We will be able to keep a fair amount of possession in this game. At least 40 percent. Walcott mere presence will push them back and they’ll be afraid to press us too high up.
Yes, we have to worry about giving Messi too much space in behind, but they ahve to worry about the same. You are completely forgetting about the impact our attackers can have.
Of course, we could have a bad game and our attacking strategy could backfire but speaking without hindsight that is the best way to go. At least at home. Maybe at the Camp Nou we will play deeper like we did at Old Trafford but tomorrow we go out and try to impose ourselves on Barca.
I agree with you. Trying out a new tactic/formation which we have never played before, against a top-class opponent, would be unwise. I believe our better fitness level might edge the contest in our favour as the game progresses since Barca have been fielding almost the same starting 11 for all their recent games.
The key would be to avoid conceding early
Initially they would be playing at a high tempo but it should ease off. Also whenever we sit back we seems to concede
I would like to quote Arshavin’s law here” If we do not score we concede” something along those lines
Like you said Desi, i would like the team to come-out with nothing to lose attitude. I somehow feel that attacking Barca is the best form of defence since then they do not have the ball to do any damage
Anyways hoping for a cracking contest
@IndianGunner
I disagree that every time we sit back we concede. In fact, this season in many games Arsenal have conceded possession and played with caution. Most of those have been in away games but we have done a good job defensively in many games.
But Arshavin’s Law is certainly a factor. We cannot sit back and contain Barcelona for 90 minutes without having any attacking outlets or without scoring. I just feel it will be more about being intelligent in attack rather than going all out in attack.
There is a good chance that 16-18 of the 22 players on the pitch will be in the Arsenal half or thereabouts. I don’t see how width will be relevant if there are such vacant spaces in the Barca half. If they do sit back then a question of width becomes valid and we can always introduce Arshavin or Nasri to counter that.
The most important decision Wenger has to make is whether his team can compete with Barcelona in terms of possession and passing. I don’t think we can but if Wenger thinks his players can do it then he will go with an attacking formation.
The simple question that I see is – Should Arsenal be prepared to defend against this Barcelona side or should they go out to attack only to realize that it’s not working and the attacking players are having to defend.
Hopefully I’ll be proven wrong. I’ll be thrilled if tomorrow everyone comes here and tells me what an idiot I was to think we cannot dominate the ball against Barcelona. In fact I’ll be the first to write that in my report. But right now I just can’t see it happening. So instead of writing about an attacking team that I can’t see winning I’ve just mentioned a more balanced approach that, in my mind, gives us a decent chance of getting a result.
And this is not the same as Mourinho parking 10 men around his box and not even trying to come out.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the game and hoping for another big football lesson, in the form of a positive and winning performance, from Wenger and his players.
I like the post.
1.I think what is important is to look at where we are better than them man-for-man. There are flaws in this Barca team no doubt.
Ill start with one anyway. Abidal vs Walcott. Walcott will win this battle hands down and if he gets carded early on it could prove disasterous for them.
I also think Alves is weak defensively. If they really plan to play with 3 defenders(Alves up the pitch) then they are playing a very dangerous game in my opinion.
2. I have a gut feeling RVP is about to get the worldwide respect he deserves with this game.
In the World Cup final RvP worked his socks off but rarely got any service. I remember doing an analysis after that game and the Dutchman received a total of 5 or so passes from the likes of Robben and Sneijder. I expect him to be involved a lot more in this one and hopefully your 2nd point will be proven right.
I reckon we can beat em’. We just need to keep our concentration, no mistakes and close down often. No matter who plays they need to stick to their jobs no matter what. For that reason though i don’t think Denilson will be able to hack it.
We’re all assuming Barca are gonna have a good game, they drew their last league game vs Sporting Gijon who are 16th in La Liga. If they perform like that against us a victory is imminent!….However the 4 matches before that game they scored 3 goals each game (not so promising lol)
——-RVP——-
AA————W14
——-Fab——-
–Jack—–Song–
Gael-Koz-JD-Eboue
—–Chezzah—–
I’d go for the more obvious choice, with jack and song with more defensive duties while fab stays strong spraying out passes to the front 3. If we find we’re being overloaded with Dani Alves and Messi chargin’ our left side then I’d sub Nasri for AA and B52 for Walcott and play more of a 4-4-2.
3-1 for the GUNNERS!
Hi Desi,
I largely agree with the overall strategy and philosophy – this looks like a team built to close spaces deep in our half so as to counter the expected Barca way of playing.
But i would however swap Nasri for Denilson, with Theo on the right, Nasri on the left. while Denilson may help in regaining possession, I feel against this Barca team, arguably Nasri would be more important in terms of retaining what few possession we will have! esp. with the immediate group pressure the Barca players will apply when they lose the ball, i’d rather have our own version of Xaviniesta playing off each other. imho, against this Barca team, what Denilson adds to defence would not be substantially more than any other player (this is not about Denilson, I do like him as a player). oth, against this barca team, what nasri adds to ball retention and offence, would be substantially more than most other players.
i guess my underlying assumption is that barca will be super favourites, bcos:
- Barca’s team system has helped them be the best in the world currently. they’ve simply found a system that works, and works beautifully, and stuck with it for more than 2 years already. only a few (e.g. Mourinho’s Inter, Sporting Gijon) have managed to counter their system, and only Inter managed to win convincingly.
our system on the other hand is still a work in progress and has not “stabilised” in terms of defence frailty and balance between offence and defence. many reasons – persistent injuries to key players every single season, plus perhaps due to the nature of the EPL, we have had to vary our system from time to time (e.g. Chamakh, Bendtner, offer different threats)?
- on top of that system, they have some of the best players in their respective positions (Messi, Xaviniesta, Villa)
against this barca team, we should therefore not expect to have more than 40% possession. it would be naive to expect us to “play our normal game” bcos we simply would not have the ball to play our normal game!
Excellent point about the difference between the two systems. Even Inter didn’t win convincingly because if we remove the off-side goal they’d have been knocked out. It was that close. And they played each other four times with Inter winning one and losing two.
Barca have been able to take their style close to perfection. They have the advantage of playing in Spain where such a style is appreciated and the physical style is not that common. They also have the world’s best player who helps them get more out of their style than a regular team would be able to.
For Arsenal the system is more difficult to develop because of the approach of the refs in the league, the style of some teams, and so on. Arsenal need to find a different sort of a balance and I see the need for that in this game as well.
The saying goes…if its not broken, don’t fix it, aka there is no reason to change the formation or our style… Schezsney, Eboue, Kos, Djourou, Clichy, Song, Jack, Cesc, Arsha/Nasri(depend on the gaffer’s decision, Theo, RVP
That is an interesting thinking Desi. This season we have played lots of games without relying on our possession. Surprisingly more than last year this year (where we have improved tremendously) we have had lesser possession may be we average close to 55% possession and we have gone through games in which we did not have 50% most of the time (Man U, Everton (home,away), Chelsea (A) ).
So i dont think Arsene’s priority is possession alone anymore. I think we will have some thing like 30-35% possession but lethal with possession. I dont think we will press all over the pitch which is not possible against this team we need to press inside our half more like Manchester City home game. I think we can do reasonably well with their midfielder’s and attackers by pressing into our half. This would invariably leave Pique with more time on the ball so he might become the important player.
If we can have some composure and could launch a counter attack like Wolves’ second goal we have a good chance to win. Even last year we created chances against Barca.
Exactly. This season I have seen many games where the Gunners have worked hard off the ball. It’s not perfect just yet but we can see the effort being put in. I think this game will tell us if it’s good enough or not.
Given the strengths of both Barca and Arsenal, neither side is expected to be short of confidence and tactical ability. I think this game will come down to the creative capacities on the day and extent to which players can anticipate, believe in, and exploit such creativity. I expect an evenly balanced match with exciting moments of explosive surges.
Whatever happens my wish is for Arsenal to perform in the way I know they can. The most I can expect from them is to stay true to their incredible talent and collective force. If this happens, win or lose, I will be content.
The key here is not to go into a defensive shell. We will be eaten alive. We need to have a balance between attack and defense. The key I feel is to do what Barca do so well. When they lose the ball they are like piranhas when it comes to winning the ball back. Usually other teams cough up the ball pretty fast and are discombobulated when this happens, thus Barca can exploit spaces over and over again.
We need to win the ball back often and also defend as a team…. give them some of their own medicine… Walcott will be key in us pushing into their half and getting behind their d.
I agree about the need for a balance between attack and defence. But I’m not sure we can just start winning the ball back the way Barcelona do. It’s a complex system that would need a lot of work in the training ground. We can do it as well as we do but I’m not sure that will be enough, especially given that technically Barcelona are better than the best teams we encounter in England.
Never seen you so defensive Desi . It seems you have already given up !!!
I can see why you might feel that way but trust me that is not the case. I just don’t think Arsenal can go all out in attack in this game and get a result. We need a more pragmatic approach rather than our usual gung-ho style.
i don’t know how… but in part 2 you remind me about “jose the dark lord mourinho”.. sorry..
agree with the part 1.. about nothing to lose mentality that could turn into a very positive performance, the test against the best, & Bhagavad Geeta’s philosophy..
Well it’s not a black or white – attack or mourinho – discussion. The Dark lord sends his team out to defend against Barcelona, Arsenal, United, Bayern, etc. That’s his style. I’m not advocating that. I’m just trying to find the right balance for Arsenal as far as this daunting fixture goes.
If it was last season, I might have agreed with you.
BUT (and as others have pointed out), we are most familiar and clicking well with the 4-3-3 this season. It would be unwise to play otherwise.
Most importantly, I feel the best way of keeping Barca slightly unbalanced is to have attacking outlets. With your formation, RVP will be totally isolated. Walcott is not creative enough to switch flanks and maraud from the middlemaybe Nasri with his new pace) therefore we would still need a threat on either flank going forward.
Like it or not, Arsharvin is the best option out left.
We play 4-3-3 but we need to be absolutely disciplined with our spacing, communication and our last line at the back.
when going forward, we must press and attack in numbers. IF we go in with a defensive mindset, I think we will lose our confidence.
Let’s hope the lads put in a massive shift and nick it by a goal.:)
interesting ploy desi..and a good read..but could not agree with denilson part…
denilson, the worst arsenal player for the last year playing against the best team in the world..hugely risky i say…
desi you yourself said that confidence is the single most aspect we need from players today…and denilson is not at all confident considering his form in recent times…so denilson thingie is a bit worrying factor…hope wenger does not play him.
fabregas can be brought to the midfield and nasri/arshavin to play in the front role with walcott and persie…
the most important thing…i have seen the re-reruns of both the matches from last year…and actually thought that arsenal players where not pressing the barca players enough…on many occasions barca had the ball and the players were just waiting for them to pass instead of pressing for the ball…we should follow the same approach as we did with chelsea…every player presses for the ball..every player get back to support the defence…
Arsenal will get multiple counterattacking chances…the strikers need to be selfless and pass to the player in the best position, this too is the key…for eg in last match against wolves towards the final mins, walcott ran riot from the riot flank, dodged the wolves defender and hit the ball from an acute angle…he should have passed it to chamakh who had open goal…i could chamakh trying to pull his shorts down in fury!!
just hoping that arsenal players dont show them too much respect!!
right flank***
Yeah we an use Nasri instead of Denilson i.e. on the left of in the Cesc role with either Wilshere or Cesc coming into the middle. It will give us slightly more attacking flavour. It will then depend on how things work out on the day. An extra attack minded person could be advantageous in certain situations and can also lead to some gaps in other cases.
we cant be defensive because we don’t defend that well. we are good at attacking so lets do what we are good at and hope for the best.
Recently i read an interview given by pedro, he says we are very physical. I think that is our strength against a team like barca, we need to roughen up things a bit.
I know it would sound odd and probably sound like a stoke fan but i really feel we need to have a hard go at them.
They are happy thrashing spanish teams which are not very physical, lets give them an English lesson and let them realize how difficult is to stay top in a physical league like this.
C’mon gunnerrrss!!
Desi, what do you think of this post? It is about how teams should play against that super-favourites catalonian side…
timhi.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/how-not-to-defend-vs-barca/
Apparently, Barca have an away jinx at the last 16 stage
http://www.supersport.com/football/uefa-champions-league/news/110216/Barca_ready_to_break_last_16_away_jinx?
We’re winning this tie then? Or will it be a 1-1?
I think the formation is doomed to fail. its similar what ac millan played against spurs and lost. if you spend too much time defendinding you will only loose against a team like barca so we should also focus on our attackin strenght.
Well I have seen quite a lot of Barca’s games this season. Most notable out of them is probably the thrashing of Madrid. Last season Jose was able to negate this Barca side largely because he didn’t have enough creative players at Inter. But at Madrid it was obvious that he would be slammed by the hierarchy if he played a similar approach as it would leave out many of their “stars”.
The result was that Madrid tried to take the game to Barca and the result I think is something we all are aware of. :O . Guardiola used the wide spaced defense tactic and it worked to perfection. I’m guessing it will be more of the same against us if we try and attack like Madrid did. And trust me Madrid have a much better squad than us with the likes of Di Maria and Marcelo who are much more efficient in tracking back than the likes of Walcott and Nasri. And yet Barca absolutely thrashed them. Madrid hardly got the ball in that game.
Although I agree we don’t have the personnel to defend for 90 minutes, but something similar needs to be done to what Inter did in their home game against Barca. Dani Alves is absolutely sublime on the right and tenacious while defending so I am sure that Arshavin just can’t do a job on him while tracking back and perhaps even while attacking. What do you think about playing Gibbs in front of Clichy maybe? Theo with his pace may still track back on Maxwell, or maybe he could just make him sit back and not venture forward at all, that would be awesome wouldn’t it?
. Cesc should be given a free role behind Van Persie a la Sneijder for Milan. Then we can have a solid back 4 with a midfield front 4 supporting them and young Jack can find the outlet balls for attack, as he has shown in the last few games, where I believe he has been better than Cesc himself.
Make no mistake about it, we have to defend and hit them on the break using Theo’s pace. Barca press the ball, and then press it some more, and then keep pressing it. It is like hounds after a criminal. We just can’t hope to attack and think we will win the game. Wenger against Utd at Trafford played Rosicky, Nasri, Theo, Chamakh all 4 in an attacking role and they couldn’t do anything even against a Utd side on the decline. So against Barca our primary tactic has to be to defend. We can’t press high up the pitch as they are too good on the ball to be able to do that.
Its not showing them too much respect, its fighting for our own fucking place in the UCL. We don’t want to hand it to them on a silver platter by attacking and leaving ourselves vulnerable to the counter attack. We have to make them earn the goals they score. AND EBOUE NEEDS TO BLOODY LEARN HOW TO DEFEND.
He has been absolutely shite this season while defending. And although it hasn’t cost us much against the relatively weaker teams. Villa is a world class talent and he will punish us if Eboue is not upto task. Oh how we could rue that unnecessary tackle that led to Sagna’s suspension. He has been an absolute rock for us this season.
I believe we can do this. If we can take even a goal advantage to the Nou Camp. And get a goal their early like we did earlier, the crowd that is supposed to act as a 12th man for Barca might just start getting frustrated to our advantage.
RVP is key. Hope his chocolate leg can do the trick again.
This Barca side isn’t unbeatable, but we simply have to approach this game in the right frame of mind, else we will help them in becoming unbeatable.
Prevention is better than cure after all.
C’mon you Arsenal !!!!!!!
I’m saying this after a long time, Desi. but your article and starting 11 is way way off the mark.
1.”Pressing in the Barcelona half might work for a while but can we risk giving Messi the length and breadth of our half to run into? I think it will be suicidal for Arsenal to go with our usual attacking approach.”
- Villareal and bilbao have done it successfully this season. even Hercules were willing to commit men forward. and the only way we like to play is in the oppositions half. we talk about Messi catching us on the break, but Messi doesn’t have to wait for an opportunity to catch us on the break to go past our defense, does he? he can do it anytime whenever he and Xavi link up well. will not matter anyways. unless we play our game, AT HOME, we are screwed.
2.”If the visitors camp in the Arsenal half it will only be a matter of time before they score”
- just like your evaluation of Messi’s threat , I’m sure Barca will be thinking of Walcott. yes, barca will try to play their game, but will be slightly cautious at the same time. If they aren’t, it may very well play into our hands. and I’m pretty sure Guardiola is managing the best team in the world for some reason.
3.”If, or should I say when, the Barcelona full backs make forward runs I’d like to see Song or Wilshere go out to close them as there won’t be a designated wide player on either side in the system that I’ve proposed.”
- Song and Wilshere move out, leaving space in the center. Alves plays it back to Xavi. a simple threaded ball to Villa/Messi. Game over.
football doesn’t always work like that.
4.”This season it seems Messi is playing centrally in a False Nine role. So we should expect him to drop deep often and link up with the midfielders while opening space for the wide players to make diagonal runs.”
- while a part of that is true, and is certain on paper, it doesn’t always seem that way in game-time. yes, Messi has been given a lot of freedom to move across the pitch this season and at times even act as a trequista, I don’t think it is that simple. Messi will start the game centrally. Move to the right as the game goes on and keep operating in these two areas as the game goes on. he hardly drops deep.
we can’t concentrate on a single player. that’s where we got caught last season. we tried to play a bit too deep, Xavi had all the time in the world and taught us a midfield lesson at the Emirates. imo, what we have to do is attack with numbers when we can, switch play whenever we can but keep the shape so we can have two banks of four whenever we need to defend. in conclusion, we need to keep our shape in touch with Barca’s at all times whenever they win the ball. and it won’t be easy.
but here’s a fact one of my mate game me.
Last season they DDL their 3 away games. Season before that when they won it they DDD their 3 away games. Their La Liga away record is near perfect, but this is not La Liga, and despite absolutely spanking us at times last season, they still could not win. Add that to us not losing to a non-UK team since 2003 at home, and things start to look a little better.
I’m pretty confident, but mind you, I was very confident last year too. Here I head off for the game !!
Yes we are better than last season mate. But the SCARY thought is that Barca are better than they were last season too. With Ibra they were stagnant at times while attacking in the sense that he couldn’t switch sides as much as the Barca game required. Villa on the other hand, primarily plays on the left. They play with no designated striker, anyone and everyone can pop in with goals for this team.
But yeah I do agree with the Walcott bit. I was thinking about actually playing with Gibbs in front of Clichy on the left because Arshavin just can’t track back that much. And Alves will destroy us if that doesn’t happen. Jacky boy needs to thread those balls just the way he did in the Wolves game, though he will have much less time to do so today. RVP needs to produce on the big stage now. WE SIMPLY NEED HIM. They probably will mark Cesc tightly so the other mid field players have to step up. And SONG SHOULD NOT VENTURE FORWARD TODAY. Please Arsene tell him that a thousand times at least.
Boy I haven’t been geared up this way for a game for a long long time. A footballing spectacle is what I’m hoping for.
I’ll give a party to my mates if we can get a clean sheet.
i agree with you tactically but don’t agree with you emotionally and goonerily.
We want to beat them in our style not by becoming united or chelsea.
Gooner gooner gooner….
P.S- may be that’s the reason pundits say we lack footballing brain. Doesn’t matter we can beat anyone with heart.
Disappointed by your prediction for Chesney he is already a keeper that Almunia can never be ……
Denilson wont play no doubt about that…It will be suicide as he has well below par throughout the season ….
and agree on Hong_Gunner the best was to deal with Messi is to cut his supply lines…
Dude, sorry but Denilson cannot play in this game until we’re 3 or 4 goals up, we’ll be massacred if he steps foot on the pitch- someone who acts as a passenger in a game of this magnitude and against a team this good and dynamic just can’t be trusted.
I believe we should play our normal formation; I’d prefer Nasri to Arshavin cos he’s a harder worker and it’s extremely sad that we don’t have Sagna in this game as he’s class and would provide that additional physicality to trouble Barca, Eboue really really needs to have an excellent game for us to play to a level that we know we can.
I think this game is going to come down to our Midfield triumvirate and RVP. If these excellent players can control the pace of the ball and Cesc is on another level (cos we desperately need him to be), I can see beautiful passes like the mid-week one to Theo opening up spaces and making Barca think hard.
There’s nothing to lose, go gunners!
A very interesting read. I don’t believe Wenger will set his team that way in a million years, but when every other Arsenal blog is putting out pretty much the same kind of ideas about tonight’s match, it’s interesting to see what an alternative, more defensive set-up might look like. And it’s certainly created a lot of discussion in the comments.
I don’t believe there’s a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way to play Barca. Some teams have got positive results against them by defending deep and narrow, and some have been successful by pressing. Ultimately, our players and style lends itself better to an offensive, pressing strategy, and I think it’s the better choice for us. It won’t be the best choice for everyone.
I feel our home match against Chelsea is the blueprint for this game. With the crowd behind us, and if we play behind fear, then we can get the upper hand and pull Barca out of their rhythm. Like Desi spoke about about in his last article, much will hinge on our confidence and mental state.
WOW, isn’t nice to read intelligent and insightful comments, it’s a welcome change from some other blog comments like “we need more steel” and “sell this guy and that guy”…
We did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope I am d first one to announce
[...] Barcelona Preview Part II – Tactics And Starting Eleven As I mentioned in the last post, I’d like to see Arsenal go out with a nothing-to-lose mindset. But there is a [...] [...]