I don’t know the general opinion about Vela but I’m a fan. That’s the reason I was looking forward to him getting a chance and it’s also the reason I was quite disappointed with his effort against Newcastle.
I don’t wish to criticize the youngster. There is no doubt he has bags of potential. And if my memory serves me right, he is also the second quickest player at Arsenal behind Theo. But we are not seeing that potential turning into big performances on the pitch. He’s scored a few goals this season, and that is certainly an improvement, but those have been late goals in big wins.
We’ve not yet seen him score that game changing goal in a difficult game. The young Mexican could have done it against Newcastle in the first minute but just didn’t get himself in the right shooting position and ended up scuffing his shot.
Vela’s weaknesses are highlighted by the relative success of Hernandez at United. One could argue that Vela hasn’t played as a striker that often but he didn’t really impress when he started against the Tiny Totts.
Given his apparent talent, it’s difficult to understand what exactly is going wrong. My best guess is that the loan spells in Spain didn’t help him at all and over the last year and a half he has been struggling because of injuries and lack of game time at Arsenal. A couple of years ago the kid had a lot more confidence than what I saw yesterday.
The Mexican team plays with a slightly different style where he doesn’t have to put in that much of a defensive shift. That role is very different from what he has to do at Arsenal. It could be that Vela is having a hard time adapting.
In fairness, I would say Arsene is trying to give him some chances even if it is with late cameo appearances. Will this be enough? I don’t know.
I feel what he needs is a run of games in a team that plays an attacking style. With Bendtner coming back, Chamakh in top form, and RvP not far away, I can’t see Vela getting a long run of games at Arsenal. Could a two-three month loan spell to a side like Blackpool help him?
He can develop into a left sided version of Walcott and we have seen the havoc caused by Theo in full flight. Vela seems to be technically a little better than Walcott and not much slower in terms of pace. If we can get the Mexican to a level similar to Theo, we will have even better options for the starting line-up and more genuine threats on the bench. I really hope Arsene is able to get the best out of the Mexican.
Moving on, I’d like to mention our central defenders. This season, based on what I’ve seen, the four central defenders look much better than our last bunch in many ways. They seems just as strong if not stronger, better readers of the game, far superior at attacking the ball in the box, much better at tackling and intercepting, really confident, and more alert.
I wonder where are those who were doing all the math about the defenders going out and those coming in? Or those who wanted Arsene to spend on big money proven defenders? Wenger has gone out and bought players who fit a specific profile, defenders who are perfect for us.
Our central defence isn’t perfect at the moment. But we can’t realistically expect it to be. The two newcomers have barely had any time to adapt, a third one has just come back from a season long lay-off, and the one who played almost all of last season has missed a large chunk of games this season.
Despite that, the central defenders did really well especially against the likes of Sunderland when the midfield completely went to sleep. So far, I can remember only one game where the defence can be criticized and that was against West Brom.
Hopefully, they will get even better as the season progresses and they develop a better understanding with each other and the Keeper.
I’ll end by mentioning this analysis of effectiveness (minutes per goal or assist) of midfielders in Europe. Unsurprisingly, Cesc is at the top. Last season I’d showed how Fabregas was far superior to Rooney who eventually won the player of the year in the Premiership.
What is more interesting is that Arshavin (87.10) and Nasri (89.75) are ahead of the likes of Van der Vaart (105.5) and Malouda (118.5). Yet we have some Arsenal fans hurling all kinds of abuse towards Arshavin while others are going crazy over VdV! I also vaguely remember many were criticizing Nasri last year and were calling him a useless signing. I guess the only really unfortunate part of being a gooner is that we have to put up with some absolute idiots.
I agree, great article. Mainly let #23 be himself.
AA May be lazy and all but he is magic in the final third.i feel if AA would add 30% to the 50% he would join the league of the Ballon d’Or contenders and thats why many of our fans are frustrated with him.
I agree with you. Arshavin is not perfect and I don’t have a problem with criticism in general. Sometimes it gets out of hand and degenerates into abuse and irrational nonsense, that is what I don’t like.
Spot on – cogent and fair-minded analysis, especially your remarks concrning Arshavin. I would add only this, from my sofa much closer to Mexico than yours, and that is : I think Vela needs to stop partying and lose about a stone, then you might see a vast improvement. I read your blog with great interest, and my family have been Arsenal fans since they were Dial Square!
Thanks.
Interesting points. I’d not considered the partying angle or the weight one probably because I thought Wenger would not tolerate slackness on that front. But it could be a factor no doubt.
A good analysis Desi. I would like to see Carlos go out on loan, he has a lot of potential but I can’t see him getting much game time at the moment to realise it.
I have so much more confidence in the centre backs this year, even the worst of them Djourou is still recovering from injury and is already better than Silvestre.
” I guess the only really unfortunate part of being a gooner is that we have to put up with some absolute idiots.” In any large and diverse group of people there will be idiots. Unfortunately idiocy seems to have a way of making people confident and vocal in their idiotic views, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Thanks for sharing that link. It’s an insightful theory and intuitively easy to understand.
there is more to football thn stats.
if arshavin doesn’t track back and we concede 2 chances because of it but he scores a goal, you think that’s statistically a good performance? it works both ways but that stat only shows the one side of the argument. i’m not saying we concede two chances because of him for every one he creates but it’s a fair example. he’s giving the ball away a lot with a lot of bad passes, he sometimes looks out of sorts and only looks sharp for small periods of the games usually. if he plays poorly for 70 minutes and well for 20 you can’t call it a good performance just because he scored a goal. right now his ratio is good but he’s not playing well enough for the team to justify starting every important game. i’d like to see him benched for the next league game to see if he puts a rocket up his ass. nasri is playing his socks off going forwards and defensively, cesc is too, wilshere is too, arshavin does when he feels like it. that is the problem.
Valid points, Ryan. Much as I mostly always agree with Desi, I believe stats do not always tell d whole story of a match or the talking points. Arshavin plays football to enjoy himself ONLY and doesn’t bother about other things. No doubt AA is capable of contributing more if he brings himself into it such as his track back and interception when Clichy was out of position during the Citeh match.
Arshavin is a bit lazy at times and if he improved this aspect of his game, he would be fantastic. However, can you cast your mind back over the last few years, with arsenal keeping possession in most games, without having any kind of impact near goal? Arshavin and latterly Chamakh have changed this and we really have options in attack. Arshavin is a luxury, but one I’d prefer to have than not have.
I agree that the stats don’t tell the complete picture.
What I feel is that we cannot expect every player to have the same level of work rate. We also have to understand that football is a team sport and one player playing poorly could be because his teammates are not on the same wavelength. For instance, Arshavin often made amazing runs but never got the ball. How do we judge the work rate that has gone into that sprint when the ball never arrived?
On the whole I don’t have a problem with criticism. Sometimes he tries a lot of backheels and such passes that don’t come off. There are other moments when he loses the ball. This shows there is room for improvement and I’m sure Arshavin will agree with that. But constructive criticism and mindless abuse are not the same thing and many people cross the line.
Vela is blameless and right now lack confidence. I think he should be playing every other game when Arshavin shows his usual lack of interest which happens quite a lot. Sometimes it not easy to defend Arshavin when he simply goes through the motions and hardly do anything except moan, stand the with mouth open. Vela cannot adopt to Premier league as he has not played two games in a row and when he is playing left midfield he create many chances.
I think we made mistake selling Eduardo and right we should know some players would come good eventually. Also being a midfield in Arsenal is not easy with so many quality players ahead of you.
Vela is going to click only when Wenger gives a run of games just like Fabianski. Arsenal fans should support their players instead of looking for fault all the time. But believe the advantage are our players face the toughest scrutiny of any other team in the world and it can also be force for goodness in long run.
Vela certainly does not have a place in this team whether Arshavin is benched or not. If Arshavin is to be dropped Nasri is the one who will take over left. So that leaves us with the right who will fill in , there you have Walcott, Rosicky and now Bendtner. Vela has not shown anything more than the above to be selected ahead of them.
I am not really sure everybody thinks that if Arshavin is dropped Vela is the next one to fill in. He is most likely fourth choice for the left midfield after Arshavin,Nasri,Rosicky.
Vela needs run of games but we cannot give and he does not deserve a place on merit, unless otherwise Wenger sees a different beast in training. Giving chance to Vela is more sentimental than reasoning.
I am curious to know why do you think selling Eduardo was a mistake ? He certainly was not missed don’t you think ?
Personally i do not see a future for Vela in Arsenal , probably Man Utd will be a better place where he might more chances.
I agree with you but me belief is Vela is natural left winger/Midfield as they call it now. Vela need game time before we can make judgement, Also his stay in Spain was very succesful and made him a better player. They problem start when he returned to Arsenal with all these players competing for few places. I think we need to keep players and play when chances arise.
Eduardo is missed very much and I think if we where patience we would have a quality player in each positions. Also Vela natural positions is striker not left wing, I think we should never sell players just cause fans don’t see end result despite never player more than two or three games in a row.
These best chance for Vela came when we had all our strikers injured and Arshavin was played their, Wenger should have put Vela in that position. Arshavin was worse striker ever and we lost many games. But Arshavin is way ahead of many players on left side and if I was the manager he would the first player on team sheet.
Let be patience and judge players over A season not in few games. Sometimes we behave like we suffer from premature fashions, Let not carried and let the team do their stuff and of course support all our players come rain and shine. The reasons why other are more successful is they are allowed to make mistakes but learn from it, While with us we vilify our players after one game why?
I think Vela time would come and if he fail then he can be sold to likes of Villa, Fulham who have shown interest.
Vela has quite a rep for late nights and not just with trannies in Mexico. AW is no dummy and that stuff matters to him
Explains it.
I hear he’s from a party town, Cancun.
No wonder he seems to turn up always looking like he’s tucked one Taco and a Tequila shot too many.
Yep he need to get real cause the main issue is he always going out, Before it was long trip to Mexico then returning late or injured. He is also get tired very easily, hence he never last a whole game and these is due to lifestyle he is leading.
He is now banned from Mexico National team for six months and yet he is always partying why without anyone giving him a warning? Wenger should read him the riot act cause footballer life is short career wise.
I’m not sure Vela is blameless. He is getting chances and he should be taking them. He should be at a level where he dominates the opposition in the Carling Cup at least.
Mental strength is important for a player and he needs to show that he is ready whenever his chance comes.
Kozzer plays like an italian defender.he reads the game so well and is excellent in one on one sitiuations.he also takes knocks and gets up with no fuss.his first touch is exemplary for a CB which makes him a very good ball playing defender similar to pique .he has everything in his locker to have a top top class defender.
Perfect Simile. Our very own Maldini in the making?
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Olakunle, EpiKnightz. EpiKnightz said: DesiGunner: The Curious Case Of Carlos Vela, New Defenders, Arshavin Impressive: I don’t know the general … http://bit.ly/agrsIC #Arsenal [...]
Loaning him out to a PL side seems like the best we can do for him. Let him go for a full season if he must. I have been banging on about him turning into a full time winger a la Nani. The advantages are obvious. He already has the finishing skills and needs time to settle as a winger. He could be a good backup for #23.
Yesterday,Djourou and Kozza withstood Carroll and co for about 25 mins. They looked quite assured after a shaky start but Djourou seems to be getting there.
Good point. I feel he might be confused over his role. Sometimes he plays striker, sometimes on the wing. But Arsene does that with almost everyone so I can’t see him changing his approach for one player.
Nasri has taken 3 penalties, right? So his effectiveness ranking is much higher than it would be if only open play was considered. Arshavin missed a penalty, and so did Cesc (made one, too)! ronaldo takes penalties for Madrid I imagine, and VdV for the Totts? Anyway, I rate Nasri. Glad he didn’t go to the World Cup.
Everybody in that list takes penalties, not sure about Malouda though. VDV stat is shocking he has 1 assist to his name that is probably too low. I saw few couple of lucky goals he got also he takes penalties, now i wonder he is that good as people make out to be. More games will throw some light.
Nasri’s stats are looking very good.Already Nasri has surpassed his past 2 seasons tally within 10 appearances.
Well we’ve already missed three penalties this year so who can say scoring penalties is not important! We might have had 2 extra points at Sunderland if Nasri had taken that and scored. Would have made a big difference. And how is scoring a penalty any different from scoring a free header in the six yard box or a tap in?
Nice article, but at the moment i would not send vela on loan we need him. cause he is the closest thing we have as a left side winger and the only time u will see the best from Vela is when he get more games.
I think Arshavin need to be rested for some games
so that Vela will have His say. We need a large squad, even now we are still two players short, a defensive midfielder and a defender. I for one think that we will have more injuries this year than any other year, especially with the team seeming to be getting better ( although a lot more work to be done)
But we don’t play him as a winger that often do we? And he hasn’t done that well when played in big games. So one has to think what’s the point of holding back?
Also, don’t loan deals include an option to call back a player if needed?
Silva is coming…The Wellington Silva…
Beware Vela JET n Arshavin…
@Desi
About Central defenders u r spot on…
Rem our 3rd and 4th choice defenders are much much better than any other team in Premiership.
Djourou was good against Newcastle.
hope he improves a little more…
rem last seasn we had Silvestre as the 3rd choice central def.(ohh…cant believe we survived tht).
and on a personally I hated Gallas and never thot he did gud for our team…
Gallas departure is really working with Team Spirits looking all time high compared to past 5 yrs…
we can c players celebrating together and Szczesny getting pats,hugs n kisses after saves.
Imagine Gallas congratulating another player…tht was never gonna happen with tht fool.
Good riddance…
I like the look of Silva but also have a feeling he will struggle to adapt immediately. His attitude and willingness to work hard will be severely tested in the early months. After that we might have someone in the Henry class or the Reyes category.
Vela and Jay Emmanuel Thomas are the future for the left wing forward position when Arshavin decides to hang up his boots.
B52 and TW14 are back with a bang!
………………….Szczesny……………………
………………………………………………
………………Djourou…Koschielny…………….
………………………………………………
……………………Song……………………..
……….Eboue…………………….Clichy……..
……………………Diaby…………………….
…………………..Fabregas…………………..
………………………………………………
……………….Rosicky..Arshavin………………
………………………………………………
…………………..Bendtner…………………..
Subs:
Sagna
Squilacci
Walcott
Nasri
Vela
Jay Emmanuel-Thomas
Chamakh
Powerful name you have there.
Here’s the first squad (25) :
FW : Chamakh, RVP, Bendtner
LW : Arsharvin, Vela
RW : Nasri, Walcott
CAM : Fabregas, Wilshire, Ramsey
CM2 : Rosicky, Diaby
DM : Song, Denilson
LB : Clichy, Gibbs
RB : Sagna, Eboue
CB : TV, Kos, Squid, Djourou
GK : Fabianski, Al, Szcezny
Pushing for a place :
FW : JET
CM : Frimpong, Lansbury, Eastmond
CB : Nortveldt
Whose at risk?
I dont know why you chose the number 25, if it is the squad limit , then
Ramsey,Wilshere,Szczesny need not be considered. So there are 3 more slots.And whoever is pushing for the place are not even 21 so nobody is at risk
news flash : The new premier league squad limit is 25.
The squad limit is 25 but players like Wilshere and Ramsey who are U-21 and will be U-21 next season as well need not be counted in that 25. We can have unlimited U-21 players.
My bad.
Thanks goodness for our youth policy then!
No issues.
The quality of youth talent we have will undoubtedly give us a bigger and stronger squad in years to come as various rules come into effect.
Perhaps the better question for me to ask then would be “Who should be at risk?”
Some of the players need to know that their futures are on the line.
I think we will know better at the end of the season. By then almost everyone will have had enough chances.
Theo himself lists Clichy as the next quickest player at the club. Source Youtube “teammates” Sorry no link Im on the phone and suck at pasting with it
Nope.
http://www.totalbarca.com/2010/news/offside-walcott-breaks-henry%E2%80%99s-arsenal-sprint-record/
1. TW14
)
2. CV11
3. Armand Traore (I dunno his number
I remember Wenger saying Vela as the second fastest in the team at the start of last season..
I seem to remember something similar to the information in that link as Wenger had shared sprint times.
Theo is very fast and so are the others, it’s not a big difference. Clichy would also be very close although I feel he has lost a little pace after the back injuries.
Excellent topic of discussion.
I am one who believes Vela as more than enough potential but feel he lets himself down.
He seems lacking in ambition and competitiveness and at times makes Arsharvin look hard working.
I think he needs to knuckle down and realise that his spot should not be taken for granted.
There is immense pressure as we all know coming up from the Academy.
I know he’s only 21 but if he doesn’t start performing sooner than later, the likes of JET, Lansbury and others will push him out.
I think the same can be said for Denilson who for me, was rather sloppy. More importantly he does not add much value added beyond being a neat and tidy player (Frimpong, Eastmond will be pushing him hard next year)
They simply have to realise (or be made to) that their spots are under threat IMO.
I guess with Wilshere doing so well Denilson clearly knows his spot is up for grabs. Vela hasn’t played regularly so he should be really motivated, can’t really say he is sure of his spot.
Have we a spot for Benzema?
Seems disaffected at Real Madrid at the moment.
Just the sort of speedy direct threat we need up front. Just to kind of player who can break on the counter and beat the last two men on his own (ala Henry)
If opportunity presents itself, we could move Vela out for him and move Bendy to LW.
I have not seen Benzema. But i have seen Bendtner i am pretty confident he can do what you just told. The only disadvantage of Bendtner is his first touch other wise he can take on defenders and beat few can have a fierce shot. I am remembering the Bendtner’s goal against Everton last season also his goal against New castle.
He went on a mazy run inside a box against Newcastle, also he did it few other times. Bendtner is quite fast too, also strong. As i said Bendtner is an almost complete center forward with a better first touch he will be great.
Yes but crucially, Benzema has speed.
I wonder how many minutes Vela has actually played. Not too many I’m sure. It’s very rare that a player plays an odd game and looks impressive. Playing well, especially for a striker means teaming up well with his teammates. This is such a crucial part. If there is no understanding between you and your teammates or if you are not used to playing some of the players you can look out of place, no matter how good a striker you are.
Only if you play sufficient minutes with your teammates do you strike that chord or understanding with them. Once you develop that understanding, you know when to make that crucial run in the penalty box, you know when to stay back and play ‘provider’ so on and so forth.
Even the great Henry didn’t play upto his potential when he was at Barca or with the French national team. Part of the reason why he was so successful is because of the understanding that he had with the likes of Bergkamp, Pires,Ljungberg and Vieira. To add to all that it helped that Wenger had immense faith in Henry and he was pretty much the target man. Give all these luxuries to Vela and he’ll be a top class striker too!!!
Some one mentioned about Vela’s partying habits, well even Cristiano Ronaldo is known to be party hard. It’s not what you do off the field that matters!!!!
What about Chamakh
We don’t have somebody who can really terrorize the last defender at the back like the way Henry did.
Walcott has the speed but not the guile.
Having a striker that could put an element of fear into the opponent’s defense will invariably force them to not venture forward as much, helping our defense further.
I agree about the importance of understanding with teammates. I thought Vela had good understanding with Bendtner. They did well together in Carling Cup over the last season or two. But there are times when you just wonder what is Vela doing and that is not down to understanding.
I’m not a Benzema fan and have not seen him beat two players to score a goal. In fact, I don’t think he is that clinical either. Could be that his confidence has been affected at Madrid but we can be sure if a player is good Mourinho will make him even better. If he doesn’t do enough the Dark Lord will discard him.
Vela will come thru.
I hope you’re right.
You can play beautiful football and neva score goals, so to me stats are betta than anythng in the game and thats how they rate a player so Arshavin is the ryt player to me jst see hw he wl play now that cesc and theo are bak, he works betta with that combination
i think vela has potential. a lot of it. would be nice to see him get a string of games but we all know that’s not possible. i dont think AW would send him out on loan…so i assume he has plans for him in the CC and the FA. i like his touch. its smooth, classy, a bit like messi in the box where he makes it look effortless. he will make it. like you said DG, he needs to adapt.
i like how the squad is shaping up..and if i only have one complaint when it comes to arshavin, it how he tends to get a little lethargic in the middle of the field.
apart from that…i’ve no longer begun to bite my nails at the start of a big4 game. i think we have the potential to take down a man u now. even chelsea. its just a matter of confidence and i think that’s coming along nicely.
cheers!
Fair points. Vela does look classy with some of his touches and runs.
I think nasri & wallcott got a wake up call during the last world cup.. Not being called up for their countries respectively i believe was a good thing as far as being an arsenal fan is concerned..They still have a lot to prove and lets hope they show us what they can really do..
Dont worry every club has its doubters.. i know a few man u idiots who protest at anything whern things start going wrong for their team.
Anything from Ferguson is losing it..they should get rid of him. Evra has had a few bad games lately too..he should go.. berbatov has his ups and downs..what a waste of money he was..
I hear this all the time gooners (from their own fans ).. so lets not get stuck into our own ok.. everybody has a right to an opinion!
Yeah I hope all international managers leave our players out. That has been excellent for Arsenal.
I have to agree, all clubs have doubters. I don’t have a problem with opinion or criticism but with crassness. Sometimes the opinions are expressed in such a manner that it makes me forget Arsenal are the classiest club around.
why imitate theo when he can be like messi, sound close control, tricky and pacy…sounds familiar, isn’t it???
i think it’s time he developed a right foot, he misses many opportunities and moments in order to bring ball to his left foot + loses THST moment of surprise….
*THAT
I’d like nothing more if Vela can be like Messi but Messi is once in a generation kind of talent. To me, even Cesc and Ronaldo don’t come close to him.
I think its all or nothing for him this season, especially with young Wellington knocking on the door and what i’ve seen of him, he is special.
Any gooners missed Wednesday nights game find out when the highlights are on at http://www.locatetv.com/person/arsenal/351006 It shows you whenever Arsenal are on TV, even match of the day etc etc. Well useful.
I think we can win everything today haha, wait til next week
I believe, when Vela puts some very high work rate at the games Tevez-like running on the pitch, he would see more of the ball and he will have a good say in the game given his technical ability. Hardwork(at games) is missing.. When he is given limited chances, he needs to use them to his maximum benefit.
In the games, he looks good when others involve him in the play and when others spot his run and put him thru.. but how much he involves himself into the play is a question mark..
Most of the time it turns out that his forward runs are not spotted or the ball is played at the other flank.. He should drop a little bit to see more of the ball and demand for passess. Because that is one way he can shine.
The way for him to come good is when he gets good run of games and develops a good understanding with his teammates who can then spot his runs and bring him into play often. I dont think this will happen. So the best thing for him would be to attack the ball at the games when he is given that rare start
I guess a player out of form should always work as hard as possible. That shows he is trying even if it’s not working out.
One interesting thing that came to my mind..
Is Vela playing well only when Cesc plays??? How many of his goals are Cesc assists??
I think if Vela is played when Cesc is on the field, the guy will get his fair supply of balls and he can show his quality… Pity, he was taken off when Cesc came on in the last game.. That Bendner goal could ve easily been Vela’s
I guess that can be said about everyone! Arshavin certainly does better when Cesc is on the pitch. It just highlights the talent Fabregas has.
Vela’s problem is Dos Santos. I hear Dos Santos has been dropped from the team and doesn’t even make it to training. With nothing to do there’s probably a lot of partying going on at their place. He will be leaving this upcoming transfer window so this is good for Vela.
I’m not making an excuse for Vela… he is old enough and should be more responsible but there’s always a few of those in the bunch, right?
He is definitely one of our most talented players but lacks ambition and confidence.
The best that can happen to him is to go out on loan to a lower PL team that can assure him min. on the field. This will do wonders to his confidence and ambition to come back to Arsenal.
[...] The Curious Case Of Carlos Vela, New Defenders, Arshavin Impressive I don’t know the general opinion about Vela but I’m a fan. That’s the reason I was looking forward to him getting [...] [...]
Benzema? We have JET… no need for him… and JET can pass much better..
We also have Bendtner… so why would we want a RM reject when our players are better at the moment?