I’ve been enjoying the stories coming out of Manchester United in the last couple of days. Right from the start of the season we could sense that something was not right at Old Trafford and now we’re getting a good idea why.
First it was Fergie who came out with some very harsh comments about Rooney. I don’t know what went on between them but from a distance I didn’t see any need for the United manager to make the whole story public and in a manner that painted Rooney in a very negative light.
Certainly, accusations by Fergie of Rooney disrespecting the club seem to be baseless. Granted the striker contradicted his boss on the injury issue but I can’t see any way in which Rooney showed disrespect towards United.
I’m not trying to defend the man most of us dislike (to put it mildly), but the facts are there for all to see. He’s had some personal issues and there could be questions over his morals and stuff like that but what has Rooney done to disrespect the club?
I just thought Fergie was shocked and couldn’t handle the fact that his biggest hope for winning anything this season wanted out. His words seemed like those of a man not in control. On one side he was having a go at his player and on the other he was talking of leaving the door open. We all know how badly they need him but I can’t see Fergie doing United any favours by washing the dirty linen in public.
In response, Rooney has come out with his own story. Of all things, I never expected him to leave because of lack of ambition at United. It’s a preposterous excuse and one, I feel, that has been made up to cover up the real reason, which could be that his head has been turned by money on offer elsewhere or he wants to escape the English media.
I’m not a fan of players doing the job of managers, and when they start questioning the signings or the way the team plays and stuff like that, a top manager has to take a firm stance.
Football is a complicated business and most big managers have to balance a number of factors. Unlike some clueless fans and pundits think, the football aspect and financial aspect of a club cannot be seen individually in isolation. Players can never understand the complexities and should just focus on their jobs. Even more at a club like United who won the Premiership for three years before losing it by just a point last year.
On a side note, such player behaviour and thinking could be the reason most clubs want to support the UEFA financial regulations because they will get genuine reasons to end the spending madness.
As I was laughing at the way things were playing out at United, I couldn’t help comparing this situation to the one we faced all through the summer. Fabregas wanted to leave; he confirmed it in public and had discussions with Arsene. Wenger helped him focus on the World Cup and then stood firm under extreme pressure. For his part, El Capitan accepted the decision of his manager and the club, and has been giving his all on the pitch.
At no point did the details of their talk come out in the public domain. Neither of them showed disrespect towards the other, the club, or the fans.
Interestingly, the Fabregas story lasted all summer and it’ll be fun to see how this one develops considering the fact that we have over two months to go before the January window.
To be honest, I’m not at all surprised by these developments. I see Fergie as an autocratic, functional manager, albeit an excellent one; while Wenger is more of an artist with a vision who lets the talents flourish.
The fall out with Rooney is not the first time for Fergie. He’s had a tough time with other stars in the past, most notably Beckham, Keane, and Nistelrooy. In contrast, players like Pires, Campbell and even United’s Beckham come to Arsene Wenger when they want to train and need help! I can’t think of a single player who has played for Wenger and has not had a good relationship with him. Even someone like Adebayor says only nice words about Arsene.
I’m just hoping United don’t get to sell Rooney for crazy money as that could help them strengthen. Given their present state the longer this mess exists the bigger their woes will be. Ferguson has said he’ll settle the issue in 24 hours. I’m not sure what he means by that but if it provides more entertainment, I’m not complaining.
Here is a nice article from a good journo: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/jim-white/article/24706/
The best para from the article:
“If you want to know what worried Rooney, it is all here on paper. In the Champions League final of 2008, the red front six was Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Hargreaves, Scholes and Carrick. Tonight against Bursaspor, the front six is probably going to be Berbatov, Hernandez, Nani, Fletcher, Park and Carrick. Anyone who suggests that is a mark of progress is clearly bonkers.”
From Rooney’s point of view, he put himself out of the side and saw that without him Man Utd don’t look so strong. They are scoring enough for now alright but Tevez and Ronaldo were not adequately replaced by Utd . They still need Scholes to perform to score or Nani- though great can be mercurial.
I don’t think its about the money. He will be offered a great amount of money at Utd. He doesn’t want to wait till Cleverly et al learn and rise up to the standard. Can’t blame him really.
Look at it anyway, Utd squad has declined over the last two years. They punched above their weight because Rooney had a monster season.
“To be honest, I’m not at all surprised by these developments. I see Fergie as an autocratic, functional manager, albeit an excellent one; while Wenger is more of an artist with a vision who lets the talents flourish.
The fall out with Rooney is not the first time for Fergie. He’s had a tough time with other stars in the past, most notably Beckham, Keane, and Nistelrooy. In contrast, players like Pires, Campbell and even United’s Beckham come to Arsene Wenger when they want to train and need help! I can’t think of a single player who has played for Wenger and has not had a good relationship with him. Even someone like Adebayor says only nice words about Arsene.” Arsenal-bias?
Adebayor left with a lot of disrespect and spats. He has spoken enough shit about Wenger before changing tone. I don’t see Hleb being treated the same way Dudu or Pires are. No speaks about Flamini.
Fergie and Wenger are equally egoistic. Wenger never takes back players who leave like Hleb or Adebayor. Neither does Fergie.
Utd players who quit were very egoistic and left on very bad terms. Nistelrooy, Becks, Keane etc. Utd have their own legends who never left in the first place Scholes, Giggs and twat-Neville. Respect is due there.
PS: I cannot believe I wrote a pro-Utd comment.
“As I was laughing at the way things were playing out at United, I couldn’t help comparing this situation to the one we faced all through the summer. Fabregas wanted to leave; he confirmed it in public and had discussions with Arsene.”
fabregas had let arsenal known since 2003 when he signed that he’d be going back to barcelona. cant find the article online but theres an article that was written at the time that quotes fabregas’s agent’s comments. fabregas could go back this summer or he may hold out again for another year. we’ll see.
as for rooney i reckon he wants to move out of england because of the english media but thats just me speculating. although hes claim about man utd’s team does hold some weight. i wouldnt say its ambition id say that rooney just isnt happy with the players around him. in a few years man utd will lose david gill and fergie will retire.
the question rooney has to ask himself is would he like to be the one that leads man utd at them trying times when they happen. along with all the debt. rooney would be smart to get out quickly although i disagree with him in how this situation has unfolded. he isnt totally to blame for it. but unlike cesc this story is on the back of every newspaper and even on the front of some. as i dont think rooney will move in january he’s going to have to endure 7 months of this. in that time he has to play a respectable amount of games and i dont know if he’ll get them at man utd now.
while it would be great to see shrek leave, are there even any clubs interested? or to quote wenger, any that can afford him? real madrid would be number one on the list and theyv said theyr not interested. barca is in debt and probably wouldnt bid for him anyway (they need that cash for cesc). which leaves open consideration for man city who shouldnt have much competition for him, if hed be willing to go there. anyway well see whats said in the next day, i honestly dont think hes going anywhere sadly..
If Rooney is only going to cost wages and a bonus then he will go somewhere big for sure. Juventus or Inter could get him. He could go to Chelsea. To me Madrid are interested. Mourinho needs a proven striker to have a Champions league winning team. Ronaldo is on fire and he has a partnership with Rooney already. If he goes to either Madrid or Chelsea they become the favourites to win the Champions League next season. We are surely in the race for the Champions League this season?
Real Madrid need a proven striker ? for what ? They have Ronaldo, Ozil, Di-Maria and Higuain. All are scoring goals. I dont think they need Rooney.
.
I think Barcelona need him more than anyone else. They do not have a striker to lead their line right now. They only have wingers no strikers. David Villa does not want to play in the middle he plays in the left now. So Barcelona need him.
All said i think he will go to Man City
Well Ronaldo Ozil and Di Maria are all midfielders none able to play the lone striker. Higuain and Benzema have not proven to Mourinho that theyre world class yet. Mourinho is used to Drogba, Milito and Etoo. Barcelona also loned out one Ibrahimovic so they aren’t that in need of a striker imo. he could go to City but they have a lot of Striker talent. We will see…
TBH, I really want Barcunt to go for Rooney .. seriously.. as it shows how cheapskate they are with Cesc.
Every time I make comment on Arsenal News my computer locks up…..what`s wrong?
Do you mean on Arsenal Blogs? Or generally any news site or other blog? Are your browsers updated to the latest versions? anti-virus?
I think his computer locked up!
It happen to me also
I understand where this article was going but I don’t think I agree completely. I don’t think Flamini left on the best terms. He obviously hasn’t been up to much in the Serie A lately but Wenger does fall out with players. Same with Gallas. I think Fergie and Wenger have different management styles but to allude that players do not flourish under Fergie I think is a stretch. Ronaldo and Rooney have done nothing but flourish. Same could be said for Scholes, Giggs, and Beckham.
His handling of Fabregas’ rumored transfer to Barcelona is the same as Fergie’s of Ronaldo to Madrid. If anything this Rooney situation should be compared to that of Ashley Cole. This wouldn’t be a situation if Fergie was given the chance to sell Rooney in the summer. Rooney did not give him that option and that is why it has grown out of control.
u guys need to upgrade yals flash player and web browsers
This is a perfecet example of the failure of Capitalist quick-fix method…
Now in few yrs ManU might be owned by some new guys…
this process will go on.
Leeds United,NewCastle and Liverpool now are perfect eg:s.
even ManCityians dont know how many owners they had in the past 10 yrs…
As long as our club is not grabbed by some idiotic Capitalists and as long as Arsene stays lets enjoy the show…this is the beginning of the end for many…
Now press may start to praise Arsene and Arsenal for our sustained development…but dont believe them coz they r all hypocrites..
Lets c this way – ‘Football is never just Business’…if it is, then we ll c more Rooneys n Robinhos n C.Ronaldos n Mourinhos….
and if its not just business we ll c more Cescs n Thierrys n Eduardos n Pires’ n Campbells n Bergkamps n Wengers…
Infact I think thers only one way to clean this Football World.Just hope for more Arsene Wengers.
But unfortunately thers only one out there and fortunately hes ours…
Desi i’d disagree too.If you are talking about players having a fallout with arsene why not cashley and flaminey?They dint go out on the best terms did they?
Flamini decided he wanted to leave and Wenger let him leave. Nobody went crying to the papers and revealing everything that went on behind the scenes. Most people don’t even know what transpired between Wenger and Flamini back then.
As for Cashley, he wrote a frikkin BOOK about his adventures and feelings at Arsenal, which were not very flattering. So he deserves all the abuse he gets from Arsenal fans.
Anyway, who writes a book of memoirs at age 26? Except pop princesses and heiresses. Dumb bitches like Cashley of course.
“Sometimes you look in a field and see a cow,” he said. “You think it is a better cow than the one you see in your field. It never really works out that way. Some players like to think the world is better somewhere else. It never really works.”
Pure Class from Sir Alex Ferguson. Just makes me hate manure even more.
Oh wait! Manure-fields-cows-manure! I got it!
beautiful article.. well said… Wenger has never come out to criticize his own players in public irrespective of anything going on… That’s why players like Fabregas, Henry, Pires et al will always respect him… I am sure if Wenger was Rooney’s coach, he would have dealt with the situation without expressing his disappointment to the press, even if he goes or stays…
just one point lads, if nani gets an injury, man utd will be jostling with the likes of wolves, birmingham etc for the lowly spots towards the bottom
Well – that’ll said a lot … but i don’t think that’ll be the case yet
with Berbatov, Giggs and Scholes in addition with Nani I think they can still handle top 4 – competing with tiny totts.
What i see different with the case of Fabregas is i don’t feel such doom and gloom about Arsenal if Fab’s leaving to Barca despite he’s our main man.
But with Wayne, suddenly everyone write off Manure — now to me that’s says a lot about Arsenal.
That’s where the value having Arsene in the club is highlighted. He can really put the balance in the club where not one person is over valued so if they leave the club is in danger.
I don;t get why Sir – washed the laundry in public and putting Rooney in such negative light – while it’s good news for us for any bad news in manure – but i’d rather compete with manure in their good form – the taste of winning will be sweeter.
@ Desi nice to see common sence thinking and totally agree with you. Dont be surprise Arshaven moves on same as A,B,hore work rate problems with his team mates.
Wenger promised Cashley he would allow him go “in a year” and he did, wrestling a good deal out of Chelski. Flamini and Hleb had no problems with Wenger. Eldeman was the problem and we know the rest of the story. If “class” is the point of Desi’s article, no doubt, Wenger and Cesc did a lot better.
the “shrek”fallout is music to my ears-it couldn’t happen to bigger bunch of c**ts like MANURE -the arrogant bunch say we’re the barca feeder club?-conveniently forgetting they’ve supplied their senior club(madrid)with heinz,horse face,beckham,ronaldo & i’m pretty certain,NOW SHREK.lol!what goes around comes around hey?
As entertaining and satisfying the whole Rooney story has been its sad as well as frustrating that it won’t put us in a better position than Manure. Just like past 5 so-full-of-trophies seasons has been they will get better of us no matter whichever player disrespected whomever, and our stubborn manager won’t do a thing about it. Its not the first time, manure’s have had great players leave the club before- Stam, Beckham, Cantona, RvN, Ronaldo, Tevez etc did stop Ferguson from not winning all those titles? Did Wenger take any advantage of it? I think you know the answer.
I don’t know what on earth you are getting happy about? What are we gonna have to show at the end of the season? That Fabregas didn’t say that Arsenal are unambitious (actually he did, just didn’t do it himself and instead got it said from Xavi, Iniesta and Pique) and Rooney said it?
I can’t believe you still support Wenger after all those trophyless seasons, especially last 3 seasons when he didn’t address the obvious problems by signing proper players that the whole footballing world saw we needed.
at the very least, we are:
1) earning a net 100mill in cold hard cash every season, (not including sale of players) that can be investing in wages, facilities and players w/o any debts
2) not staring at a 500million debt, not going thru the risk of bankrupt.
3) not losing 80-90million per years to banks, or having owners taking cash OUT of the club.
4) aND WE are still challenging for all trophies despite of the constraint.
in short, this is call Forsight. Means NOT blinded by short term superficial glory, but to build a Solid foundation for next 10 years. It is always easier to enjoy immediate pleasure den to invest in future. USA’s economy is the best guide for u, if not, look at Man U and Liverpool now.
anyway, just go any support other clubs if u wan something superficial..
Wow, only a true D&G could turn a “Rooney leaving ManU” story to conclude “Wenger is crap”.
Satnam, more like SATYAM I’d say.
Frankly I m not that interested in another story that has been over-hyped. Its not the first time a player’s ego has grown larger than his head leading him to believe that he is the Footballing God incarnated. Unfortunately, its the ‘Saviour of English football’ and the Media’s favorite club involved in this case, so we wont hear the end of it until there’s a transfer or a new contract signed.
The comparison between Fergie and Le boss, though Desi, is unfair in this case, I think. Both managers have a different management style as you said, both are very good at what they do but neither is perfect. The only way to compare would be to predict if the situation would have been any different if Wenger was in Fergie’s smelly shoes and that would be pure conjecture.
Football Managers are like most managers at the end of the day. They must excel at ‘Man management’. Every now and then an individual has to be let go for the benefit of the team. But I assure you this is a last resort, and Fergie and Wenger both are good enough that this situation arises only rarely even though the dressing room is full of inflated egos.
One place where I do think Wenger has changed for the better, and this i think gives him an upper hand over others like Fergie, especially in such cases, is the transfer and recruitment policy. Here are Le Boss’ quotes from the recent AGM meeting:
“We brought Squillaci, Koscielny and Chamakh and all of them have integrated very well into the spirit of the squad. I think they will be great additions to the team. They are winners, THEY DONT TALK TOO MUCH AND THEY WORK VERY HARD. So I believe in the transfer market we have done quite well”
The great emphasis in player background, attributes likes team work and behaviour and apptitude checks before signing new players not only lets them integrate faster into our team, but weeds out trouble makers as well. Though it isnt completely foolproof, it is a step in the right direction.
Frankly, if a player really wants to leave then there is really little a manager can do about. However both Wenger and Fergie are masters at getting the good players to stay for one season more when required. What I love about Arsenal is that all we never wash our dirty linen in public and that is how it should be.
Wonder why i see the sentence in caps as a swipe at arsharvin?
Ok, I can see I’ve mixed three different aspects here and not made the points clear. Sorry about that, this article needed more time than I had but I’ll try to explain a bit in this comment.
Firstly, there is a clear difference in Class in the way Cesc and Arsene have handled their discussion and subsequent decisions/moments when compared to the way Rooney and Fergie have done. I guess this part was clear enough.
Secondly, I didn’t want to say Arsene has not had his differences with players. Contract disputes can happen with anyone. But if you look at Gallas, Cashley, Flamini, or Adebayor, Wenger never criticized any of them in public to the best of my knowledge. In fact, even when someone like Gallas joined the Tiny Totts, Wenger spoke in an understanding manner and tried to see it from the players point of view.
And neither did any of them say anything negative about Wenger, at least I don’t remember any comments. Consider the circumstances in which Campbell left us after his first stint. Do you think Fergie would be on speaking terms with a player who did that? Not only did Arsene have an understanding of what Campbell was going through, there was enough mutual respect and admiration that they could come back together. Even Pires was quite mad when he left, mainly due to the substitution in the final, but that hasn’t spoilt their relationship.
The point here is that Wenger understands different personalities and allows them to grow in their own way. Fergie, somewhat like Mourinho, has a style of his own and wants people to fall in line. As long as they do, it’s great but when they don’t it affects the relationships. To me this also has an impact on the way teams play on the pitch. Pure artistic football cannot come from an autocratic style of management.
I’m not saying Fergie’s style is not good or not effective. Just that I’d prefer Wenger’s style over his any day even though it’s tougher and poses more challenges.
Finally, the issue of whether United have ambition or not. I think it’s too soon to say United don’t have ambition, after all last year they were within a point of the title. And this year Berbatov has already taken over the burden from Rooney and United are still close to the top when Rooney has been a complete flop. If they’d been a one man team they would have been in mid-table by now.
If we accept Rooney’s point we are just encouraging a mercenary culture. We are also accepting players over stepping their domains and getting into that of a manager, and that too one as good as Fergie. Considering these aspects, to me, Rooney’s reasons are ridiculous and seem like a deflection tactic to cover the real reason.
I hope this comment, along with the article, explains my points better.
I guess I read your post wrong. You were right. Fergie uses media to leverage deals and such. Wenger is too good to do that. Wenger plays mind games through media with other managers but never with players.
I don’t understand how its not a mercenary culture.He left Everton with the same agent’s help. He wants somewhere else because he feels he has a better chance there; same reason he came Utd.
Look at the difference between Everton and United. Now tell me how many clubs are that far above United?
Even Chelsea haven’t made any big signings in the last 2-3 years, have they? Are they showing ambition? Madrid have been showing ambition for a long time but not winning much. City finished below United and Arsenal last year, could be the same this year unless top players at these clubs start throwing tantrums.
I seriously cannot see the logic behind Rooney’s comments.
Just saw this —–
He then recounted a story from United’s last period of relative decline after 2004, which involved Rooney himself, and included the departures of star names Keane and Ruud van Nistelrooy.
“A player said to me Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo were not good enough and he wasn’t prepared to wait,” said Ferguson. “That is the problem with potential. People don’t identify potential. We are very good at it. I have identified it all my life. I know potential. I know where it can be developed and how to develop it.
—-
source :
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=834488&sec=england&cc=5901
I agree with most of your added comments. The only thing is that I think Fabregas is the one that has handled it differently. Fergie does not usually have a tell all press conference like the other day. I am sure if Fabregas told Wenger at the start of a new season that he is not signing a new contract within 18 months of that contract expiring Wenger would have plenty to say. Not only can you lose the player in the same way as Flamini but it disrupts your team. Wenger developed Fabregas into the superstar he is today. Arsenal should be compensated for that. Wenger can take comfort in knowing that he will get a hefty check from Barcelona if the transfer goes through. City and Real Madrid could potentially just wait until Rooney is available for free.
I just feel like this is an easy comparison to make but it is the wrong comparison to make. Fergie and Wenger handled Ronaldo and Fabregas the same way. This Rooney scenario would have been the same as well if his agent didn’t have so much to say to the press and the timing wasn’t all wrong.
It is one thing to lose Flamini on a free transfer. He would not command an outrageous fee that an attacking player would. To lose a player like Rooney for free or even for cheap like 15mil is crazy. If he wants to leave so bad why screw United over in the process? I would sign a 12 month extension, play until January or the end of the season and let United demand a fee for my services.
Fair point about the contract situations and the Ronaldo transfer.
However, if we consider the Cole scenario. Wenger was put in a tough spot and had to sell him for Gallas plus 5M, which now looks like a bargain for Chelsea. Still, Wenger never came out with personal comments against Cole despite the fact that he went up and met up with Mourinho.
Even if you consider general media, Fergie tends to dominate them and bans anyone he doesn’t like. Wenger tries to reason with them and tries to present an intelligent perspective while respecting a different opinion. Over the years, how much have the media abused Wenger? Do you think they could do the same with Fergie?
I’m not trying to show Fergie in a negative light or to belittle him. But I genuinely feel there is a difference in personality and Wenger by nature understands the other persons perspective and respects it a lot. Fergie might do that in real life but in the world of football his perspective is the only one.
[...] Rooney & Fergie, Cesc & Arsene: Class Difference? I’ve been enjoying the stories coming out of Manchester United in the last couple of days. Right from the start of [...] [...]
Fabregas never wanted to leave. those were all made up quotes, which gives me pain to say, by a fellow Arsenal supporter who is a journalist for the Daily star and co. his name is Ben Fairthrone. Check out for links if you haven’t seen these stories yet.